
Traveller-digest     Saturday, October 23 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1247



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: TML Members as resources
RE: TML Members as resources
RE: Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)
RE: Honoring J. Andrew Keith
NICE deckplans
OT but amusing : Fw: Alien Song
Re: Space Opera?
How many barons are there?
Re: WTF- "vingean singularity" (was Re: Re Traveller and the modern 
TML Members as resources 
Re: Cardboard Heroes (was: Re: Traveller Auction Update)
Re: Another new 2D Graphic...
Re:  Vingean singularity
"Song of the Shield Wall"
Re: "Song of the Shield Wall"
Re: TML Members as resources
Re: WTF- "vingean singularity" (was Re: Re Traveller and the modern era)
Re: Type B/C atmospheres
Re: Type B/C atmospheres
Re: Macro Ships; was Re: Ship building....
Re: Space Opera?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 21:09:43 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: TML Members as resources

Here's mine:

Admin-3, Archaic weapons (muzzleloading rifle) -1, Artisan-0 (I paint 15mm. 
minis), Bayonet (socket for the musket)-0, Brawling (NYCPD)-0, Blade combat 
(cudgel/nightstick)-0, Carousing (ah;college)-0, Computer-1, Equestrian 
(horse)-0, Gun combat (handgun-revolver)-3, Gun combat (submachinegun)-0, 
History-3, Instruction( Master in Ed.)-3, Interview-1, JOT (everybody on the 
list should get this one)-0, Liason-1, Leader (civilian-not military)-1, 
Medical (CPR cert.)-0, Persuasion  (I'm interviewing now)-0, Streetwise 
(NYCPD again)-1,Tactics (my degree WAS in history)-0, Wheeled vehicle-3

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:20:03 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: TML Members as resources

How should one figure out their ratings?
Jesse



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Grav
> Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 5:27 AM
> To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com'
> Subject: RE: TML Members as resources
> 
> 
> On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Trevor, Peter wrote:
> 
> >Peter Trevor - Computer 4
> >               Admin (Merchant Banking) 2
> >               Electronics 1
> >               Pistol 1
> >               Ground Vehicle (Wheeled) 0
> >
> 
> I'll throw in mine
> 	      - Science (Math) 2
>               - Science (Physics) 2
> 	      - Astrogation 2 :-)
> 	      - Computer 2
> 	      - Ground Vehicle (Wheeled) 1
> 	      
> 
> Tommy Grav
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  
> Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  
> IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ 
>  
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:24:44 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)

AhHAH!!!  That'd be it!!  :)  Hate it when my memory does that to me...

Jesse




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of SD Mooney
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 11:43 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: RE: Copyright Issues with SJG (was: GT: Starships)
> 
> 
> "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net> writes:
> >Left to right:  My friend and ex co-worker at my real job Evans 
> Pang, long
> >time friend Pete Gotcher, Andy's wife (name escapes) and Andy 
> from BITS, old
> 
> Sarah Lilly.
> 
> >friend Tim Dougherty (writer on my VFG site), me, and another 
> shot of Pete
> >(figured no-one could tell it's the same person unless you know 
> ;)  The man
> >& woman behind the glass in the terminal area (just above & left of the
> >cargo bot's head) are Poser4 figures.
> 
> Looks cool.
> 
> Dom
> 
> ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------
>                        MiB - Marines in Battledress
>    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"
> Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ 
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:36:00 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Honoring J. Andrew Keith

Ooooo.....
Jesse




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
> Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 2:40 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Honoring J. Andrew Keith
> 
> 
> Someone recently suggested that a capital ship be named after Mr.
> Keith.
> 
> Looking over the recently-posted list of Keith-authored items, I
> was struck by how few seemed to be overtly military, and how many
> seemed to be Scout-type stuff. It occurs to me that perhaps a
> more appropriate honor would be to have a class of scout ships -
> perhaps an 'upgraded' successor to the Donosev class survey ship
> - named after him instead.  Certainly, Andy was more of a pioneer
> than a warrior in the realm of Traveller.
> 
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 18:37:56 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: NICE deckplans

Cruising through the deckplans webring today at work, I found the following
link.  I'd never heard anything about it on the TML, and was quite
flabbergasted by the deckplans.  OUTSTANDING job Phil!!!!!

http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/traveller/deckplans/

Jesse

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:00:35 -0400
From: "Micheal D. Peters" <Travelleri@home.com>
Subject: OT but amusing : Fw: Alien Song

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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One of the guys on the RayDream (3D graphics software) sent this out. =
It's admitedly off topic but I thought it was hilarious. Rates up there =
near the COPS/Storm troopers crossover that was sent to the list a while =
back.

For those that find it too off topic and lacking humor I apologise for =
the waste of bandwith.

Mike Peters

- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: Bob Crawford=20
To: Craig G.=20
Cc: RayDream Mailing List=20
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: Alien Song


 =20
"Craig G." wrote:=20

  ACK! that is hillarious! I lost the Url to it though can someone =
repost the address for the page it was on?

http://dwp.bigplanet.com/vnavone/nss-folder/movies/AlienSong.mpg=20

    That is one incredible animation!=20
    I love the facial expressions and body language, and the sych with =
the audio is as close to perfect as I've ever seen.=20
    Hysterically funny, too!=20

- --=20



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One of the guys on the RayDream (3D =
graphics=20
software) sent this out. It's admitedly off topic but I thought it was=20
hilarious. Rates up there near the COPS/Storm troopers crossover that =
was sent=20
to the list a while back.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For those that find it too off topic =
and lacking=20
humor I apologise for the waste of bandwith.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mike Peters</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:crawdad@io.com" title=3Dcrawdad@io.com>Bob Crawford</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A href=3D"mailto:SpinFu@earthlink.net"=20
title=3DSpinFu@earthlink.net>Craig G.</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A href=3D"mailto:raydream-l@lightlink.com"=20
title=3Draydream-l@lightlink.com>RayDream Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 21, 1999 6:41 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Alien Song</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>&nbsp;=20
<P>"Craig G." wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>ACK! that =
is=20
  hillarious! I lost the Url to it though can someone repost the address =
for the=20
  page it was on?</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://dwp.bigplanet.com/vnavone/nss-folder/movies/AlienSong.mpg"=
>http://dwp.bigplanet.com/vnavone/nss-folder/movies/AlienSong.mpg</A>=20

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; That is one incredible animation! =
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I=20
love the facial expressions and body language, and the sych with the =
audio is as=20
close to perfect as I've ever seen. <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hysterically =
funny,=20
too!=20
<P><TT>--</TT> <BR></P></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_04C7_01BF1CD8.DE5FD7C0--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:03:53 -0400
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Space Opera?

At 05:09 PM 10/22/99 -0700, you wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:16:13 -0400, Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu> wrote:
> >Personally, my definition of Space Opera has always been the need for
> >fighters to bank in space :)  Thus, Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica are
> >space opera.  Star Trek, in all it's incarnations, doesn't have fighters,
> >hence it's not space opera.  B5's fighters don't bank in space, so it's not
> >space opera either.
>
>Wrong!
>
>TOS didn't have fighters, true (unless you count Starfleet Battles).
>Neither did TNG, except for a brief glimpse of a squadron of small ships
>wiped out by a Borg cube.


>Later DS9 episodes and VOYAGER, however, have repeatedly shown craft of
>fighter size and purpose (first the Maquis ships, then others).  And boy,
>do they bank.  So do the bigger ships, if you look closely.  I could
>provide episode cites, but that would require me to watch VOYAGER,
>something I find almost physically painful most of the time.
Ah, that explains it.  I don't watch either DS9 or Voyager, although I was 
a big fan of TOS and TNG....


>STAR TREK is definitely space opera.
More like space soap opera :)  seriously though, I am a big fan of the 
first two series (including the even-numbered movies), and I wouldn't 
consider then Space Opera (yes, the big ships do bank, but for my 
definition it's _fighters_ that must bank).  It's quite possible that the 
two later series are more Space Opera-ish, but I don't watch them, so I 
couldn't say.


>   B5, however, is a trickier subject.

IMHO, B5 is fairly hard sci-fi (ships have inertia, must rotate in order to 
change course), and thus not Space Opera.  In the same vein, I don't 
consider Traveller to be Space Opera.



           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)

- --
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will
                          defend to the death your right to say it."
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
                          			     -- Albert Einstein
for PGP public-key and
more quotes, http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm
WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/                

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:10:03 EDT
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: How many barons are there?

Here's an interesting question:

Canon is pretty clear on how many there are of the highest ranks of the
Imperial nobility -- one duke per subsector, a count for every two or three
worlds, a marquis for every single important world.

Meanwhile, the baronage is the main pool from which the upper ranks
of Imperial bureaucracy are drawn.  There must be a lot of barons, since
the Imperium has a huge population to be administered.  How many?

My gut feeling is that there is probably at least one baron per self-
governing planet, no matter how unimportant -- and about one baron
per 20-50 million people on a high-population world.  I can't see the
Emperor having to keep track of more than that (such a figure already
implies *millions* of barons in the Imperium as a whole).  But I'm
willing to be convinced that my estimate is off by a factor of 10
either way.

Any insights?  And yes, this is going into a book for GT if possible.

- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty
set of people who will take offense at it."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:21:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: WTF- "vingean singularity" (was Re: Re Traveller and the modern 

From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> wrote:

>What you are forgetting is the most inherent and naturally limiting factor :
>Humans themselves.  The main distribution of people aren't very intelligent
>at all yet occupy most of the niches needed to push technologies to change
>humanity.  and these same people will fight change and do fight it.  The
>larger the changes, the more they fight it.  Why else is NASA and other
>needed agencies relegated a level of importance equal to watching cars go
>down the freeway, as far as Senators and other influential people are
>concerned, when it comes to divvying out the funds?

>You then tell these people that this or that is going to change their
>children or themselves physically and you'll have a near panic on your hands
>and the typical political knee-jerk reaction of covering it up and brushing
>it under the carpet.  Were it not for short-sighted people in power, we
>would already have an international space station, a colony on the moon,
>industry in orbit and possibly a colony on Mars as well.  Sure 
>technology is moving fast, but that's mainly research.  Implementation 
>(unless it stands to make someone very rich or powerful) seems to drag 
>slow as molasses in

Sure profits and utility drive tech.  However, having a superintelligent
being o r two around is seriously going to boost profits of almost any
company with a significant R&D division. I'd imagine most governments
would like one too.  Also, lots of folks will want to be smarter.  The
problem with Mars colonies and such like is they cost *lots* of money and
only benefit the very few who go there.  While I'm a big fan of getting us
into space, we can't do it on any large scale until things become a whole
lot cheaper.  With current prices to orbit, orbital industry is simply too
expensive. 

As for research vs. implementation.  I don't see it that way at all.
Within the past 5 years there has been: 

Cloning, growing functional, implantable organs in vats, gene therapy,
vastly improved computers, DVD movies, & cell phones in the hands of 30%
of first world people.  All these things have been commercially used. 
Sure, once you get outside of medicine, biotech, and electronics the
number of advances decreases significantly, but we're doing *astoundingly*
well in those areas. 

Pick up any recent issue of Popular Science magazine and flip through it. 
The stuff just coming on the market looks more advanced than most 70s SF. 
Sure, there's no antigravity or jump drives, but my guess is that those
things are impossible, or at best only possible for post-singularity
civilizations. 

Practical commercially used technology is changing faster than ever.
However, it's not doing so in any of the ways folks thought about in the
40s-70s (fusion, spaceships...). 


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 19:46:21 -0700
From: "James W. Brewer" <jwbrewer@ucsd.edu>
Subject: TML Members as resources 

My assortment of skills is a little bit strange.  In Classic Traveller 
format I would have.
Original UCP: 6-8-8-A-7-6
Term 1:Army:  Rifle-1, Artillery-1, FO-1, Tracked Vehicle-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1
Term 2:College: Biology-2, History-3, Chemistry-2, Education + 3
Terms 3-6: Biological Laboratory Technician: Animal Handling-1, Biology-1, 
Computer-2, JOT-1, Theology-1
Failed aging rolls on endurance = (-2)
Final Skills:  Biology-3, History-3, Chemistry-2, Artillery-1, FO-1, 
Rifle-1, Tracked Vehicle-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1,  Animal Handling-1, 
Computer-2, JOT-1, Theology-1

Jim Brewer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:57:39 -0700
From: Jesse DeGraff <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: Re: Cardboard Heroes (was: Re: Traveller Auction Update)

Eep!  No, I don't remember that, but then my memory has never been good
(just ask Todd ;)

I just check one of my comp copys and the spelling was right.  Guess I've
you to thank for that!  THANKS!!!!!

Jesse



- -----Original Message-----
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Thursday, October 21, 1999 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: Cardboard Heroes (was: Re: Traveller Auction Update)


>Jesse DeGraff wrote:
>>
>> Hey Keith, since you're the "web monkey" (love that term BTW :) for SJG,
do
>> you think you could see about getting my last name's spelling correct on
the
>> "Far Trader" page?  They blew it for the print run unless it goes 2nd
>> edition, but it'd be nice if the web was corrected ;)
>>
>> Best,
>> Jesse DeGraff, not "DeGraaf"
>> :)
>
>BTW:  Remember when I posted that I had a chance to look at the G:T 2d
>edition photocopy draft at CrescentCityCon in August of this year?  They
>had made the same mistake.  When I pointed it out to Evil Stevie, he
>asked me to watch the SJG booth for a few minutes, went directly to a
>phone, and called the office to make sure that the book didn't go to
>press that way.  I haven't seen G:T 2d edition in the store yet, so I
>don't know whether this error was, in fact, caught in time.  Still, that
>was definitely a tres cool thing for Steve Jackson to do, IMHO.
>
>--
>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:04:02 EDT
From: TDRandall@aol.com
Subject: Re: Another new 2D Graphic...

Wow!  Those are fantastic!  If that's plodding along I'd hate to see your work when the chains are off!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:20:48 -0400
From: otter@labyrinth.net
Subject: Re:  Vingean singularity

I feel like I have to point out to the people unfamiliar with the Vinge
literature and the body of commentary surrounding it that there is a pretty
large section of the philosophy-of-science community which has trouble
suppressing guffaws when the subject of the Vingean singularity is raised.
Whether this reflects more on the community or on Vinge's work I leave to
others.  =)  In any case, it's not something that the scientific community,
philosophical or working, accepts as a whole, or even as a significant
fraction as best I can tell given my current position outside of anyplace
where the relevant journals are likely to be circulated.  It's a source of
quite a bit of contention even among people who are sympathetic to the
argument.

If you want to read some good-by-Web-standards commentary presented in a
sympathetic forum, there's http://www.extropy.com/eo/articles/vi.html ...
Extropians love this stuff.  I can't say it's my thing, but it's always
nice discussion fodder at least.  And it makes for damned fine speculative
fiction.

Otter Driver

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:42:39 -0400
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: "Song of the Shield Wall"

I am in search of an _instrumental_ rendering of this song, in
any reasonably web-common format. A high-fidelity format, such as
RealAudio or MP3, would be best, but I will settle for MIDI.  Can
anyone help?
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:16:33 -0500
From: "shadowcat" <meow@advancenet.net>
Subject: Re: "Song of the Shield Wall"

at one time there was a copy of the first verse and chorus
at www.chivalry.com/cantaria, but it has disapeared.
worst comes to worst, check to see if theres an SCA group near you
its not an uncommon piece to hear at SCA gatherings


Shadowcat AKA Kevin Walsh
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf
ADD/ADHD Advocate
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 23:17:12 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: TML Members as resources

Jesse DeGraff wrote:
> 
> How should one figure out their ratings?
> Jesse

Guesstimate, my friend, guesstimate....

<<snip>>

- -- 
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:32:50 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: WTF- "vingean singularity" (was Re: Re Traveller and the modern era)

In mail you write:

>>Vinge has written several books where he speculates at a post
>>singularity society, "The Peace War" was serialized in Analog back
>>in the early 80's, and expanded in a novel and a sequel.  The thing
>>is, Vinge's protagonists are all pre-sigularity individuals that
>>find some way to transistion past it, *they* are understandable.
>
>
> His book, "Accross Realtime" is where I read of his 'singularity'.

"Across Realtime" is a collection of two novels and a short story in
one volume. In order:

"The Peace War" (novel)
"The Ungoverned" (short)
"Marooned in Realtime" (novel)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:35:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Type B/C atmospheres

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
> Oh yeah, it occurs to me that planets that are sufficiently
> radioactive as to require protective gear would also be a likely to be
> lumped under "insidious". 
>>>>>>>>>>
> Since "insidious" is defined in the rules as defeating protective suits
> in a relatively short period of time, would a sufficiently high-temperature
> planet qualify as an insidious atmosphere?

That's an interesting thought, but it might be stretching things too
far. 

But if heat qualifies, then so can *cold*. In an *atmosphere*, extreme
cold makes staying warm *very* hard, because you've got conductive and
convective losses as well as radiation losses.

> A vacc suit's temperature regulation gear must have some limit to
> how long it can stand up to a furnace atmosphere, especially if there's
> no "dark side" to dump heat into. Specialized buildings, vehicles and
> even some suits may fare better, of course.

Actually, above a fairly low temp, the limit on a suit will be measured
in *minutes*. That's because it *already* has to get rid of a lot of
heat. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:39:03 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Type B/C atmospheres

In mail you write:

>>Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>Oh yeah, it occurs to me that planets that are sufficiently
>>radioactive as to require protective gear would also be a likely to be
>>lumped under "insidious".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>Since "insidious" is defined in the rules as defeating protective suits
>>in a relatively short period of time, would a sufficiently high-temperature
>>planet qualify as an insidious atmosphere?
>
> Yup. This is one of the items used as insidious in WBH.
>
> Another good option is a flourine atmosphere. You get things like
> hydrofloric acid rain, which does nasty stuff to plastics (like seals).

Actually, HF doesn't affect plastics much. Things like teflon were
*developed* to handle fluorine. 

*Glass* is readily attacked though. As are most metals. Though several
fairly common metals "passivate". That is, on exposure to fluorine they
develop a *hard* coat of <metal>fluoride, much like aluminum develops a
coat of aluminum oxide on exposure to oxygen. 

And Fluorine definitely belongs in the corrosive class. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:45:14 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Macro Ships; was Re: Ship building....

>>Sure. I used 1/4 inch styrene from a local plastics shop for structural
>>ribs, similar to the construction of a balsa and tissue airplane. The lower
>>deck (which was smaller) and 2/3rds of the upper deck were permanently
>>mounted to this frame. The portion of the upper deck that lay over the
>>lower deck was removable.
>>
>>Internal bulkheads were done with the same 1/4 inch stock, and then
>>detailed. I think I used ForgeWorld (I can't exactly remember if the
>>company is right or not) resins for the "furntiture," etc.
>>
>>The skin was thin sheet styrene over the ribs with some external detailing
>>where appropriate. Areas over the decks were not "skinned," only sides and
>>bottom, so it looked like a "cutaway" drawing from above.
>>
>>It was a bear to transport at approximately 4 by 2 feet, but it was
>>incredible to play on. There's nothing quite like the visual impact of a
>>real nice bit of scenery - as those who have been to major Cons can attest.
>>
>>IFF (sic) there is sufficient interest after FMA comes out, I might be
>>pursuaded to build something from FT, but a frigate or destroyer would top
>>out the feasible "scale."

Sounds nice. 

This reminds me of a news item from a few days back. Mattel and Intel
have gotten together to design some "toys". One that I'm going to check
out is the "QX-3 Microscope" (I think I'ver got the name right). 

It's a hybrid camera/microscope with a PC interface. What interests me
about it is that it looks to be one of the few computer cameras that
has "macro" capability. That is, the ability to produce large, *in
focus* pictures of *small* objects *close* to the lens. 

As such, it'd be just the thing for snapshots of miniatures or models. 

At $90 suggested retail, it doesn't look to be that much more expensive
than the other cameras out there. And as a "toy" it's hopefully fairly
rugged. 


I'm going to at least check it out.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:52:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Space Opera?

In mail you write:

> Personally, my definition of Space Opera has always been the need for 
> fighters to bank in space :)  Thus, Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica are 
> space opera.  Star Trek, in all it's incarnations, doesn't have fighters, 
> hence it's not space opera.  B5's fighters don't bank in space, so it's not 
> sepace opera either.
>
> :)

Alas, the two *classic* example of Space Opera don't have fighters that
bank either. The Lensman series and the Skylark series. The first is
back in print and worth reading, if only for some nasty ideas.

Trenco is such a *lovely* planet. So is Delgon. And I want to see the
reaction of your players to a visit to Rigel IV. Or Lyrane.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1247
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